One of the main reasons we chose this house is that it is about 150 yards away from a new, beautiful, K-8 school complete with fantastic playgrounds and sports fields. As we moved in I had idilic visions of waking up in the morning, cooking the kids waffles, then walking Kate to Kindergarten with Danny and the dog, and walking back to pick her up a few hours later. The school has great scores, the principal is good, and all of her friends will be going there. If you do not get your child in for kindergarten, there is a waiting list and you wait several years to get into the school, or you never get in. But I knew we'd register Kate for kindergarten there, so everything was perfect.
Then they introduced a new charter school that will be opening this year. They are uprooting a pumpkin patch 4.5 miles from our house to put down 7 portables. There will be a few hoola hoops and maybe a wall for wall ball, but no playground until they find a permanent site and build a permanent school. None of Kate's friends are interested in going there. So if Kate goes, she'll be like the "private school kid" down the street who comes home later than you and is out of the loop with all the playground politics. It is the charter school's first year and many of the important decisions are still to be made by an alliance of parents and teachers. However, here's the good part: the curriculum will be the "International Baccalaureate" curriculum, which, if you look up on the internet, you will find is brilliant, everything you could want to challenge your child without burning her out. It teaches students responsibility as well as academics, it uses inquiry-based and exploratory learning, and requires that teachers be trained regularly. However, like our neighborhood school, there is already a long waiting list, and if we do not choose to get Kate in now, she may take years to get in or never get in. And also like our neighborhood school, once one of your children is in, the other children get sibling preference. So we are talking about the entire future of our current and unborn children here.
I have to make my decision by March 28. I am leaning towards the charter school, but I am doing it with a sense of tragic resignation. Please, come forward with all your advice, my experienced parent and school-teacher and student friends and relatives, preferably by March 21, so we have one week left to pray a lot about it. Or you can tell me I'm lucky to have two good schools to choose from and to stop complaining. I'll accept that too.
So, in the long run i think Kate and Danny will be fine regardless of what grade school they go to. contrary to popular belief (and my punctuation habits) i think that education is absolutely vital to any hope of having a healthy and productive life. When you get right down to it, our lives are a cumulative result of every decision we make, and each decision we make is based on what we know (or don't know as the case may be) so, every action we choose to make is only influenced by our education. In my opinion this is why it is so important for us to understand things as the really are. This is also why i am equally frustrated by idealists and cynics (not to mention democrats). Having an accurate perception of the way the world works (for good or evil) is essential to making decisions that will prove to deliver the results you anticipated when the decision was made. i think you have to understand a little about how everything works to be considered a responsible and capable adult. You must understand how economies function, different forms of governments and their historical ramifications (not what philosophers say they should be like on paper), how to live a healthy life style, why $1 today is worth more than $1 a year from now etc. Anyway, my point is that i'm not sure how much of those kinds of things we learn in grade school. i think most of that actually comes in college. maybe i'm wrong because i haven't had kids in school yet, but i think the most important things we learn in grade school are things like acceptable social behavior. the rudimentary arithmetic and writing are going to be taught one way or the other. and frankly, i think the most important things we learn at that age are things we pick up from our parents, self esteem, work ethic, a sense of responsibility and charity for others and so on. I think they will be fine either way. I would also take into consideration these two things: 1. how long do you actually plan on living in loomis? 2. what is the cost of the public vs charter school?
ReplyDeletehopefully that was helpful, it probably was just a lot of rambling. sorry
Um, I don't have any advise on this subjust but I just wanted to say hello. I can't believe how grown up (and adorable!) your kids are. At Liz's wedding, Aunt Yvonne was telling us about your great new house & property and it sounds heavenly! (Minus all the hard work, of course :)
ReplyDeleteI recently set my blog to private, but drop me an email at crystalee33@hotmail.com & I'll send you an invite.
Cousin Crystal Fawson
I'll have to think about this one a bit. My actual first impression was the local school because all of you did that and turned out wonderfully! Think of the variety of interests and degree of enthusiasm you all have, even with a "regular" education. Angela had a chance to go to a charter school (I think it was just as she started middle school) because she was in challenge, but staying with friends from around here was more important to her at that point. Of course you know I tend to pick the simpler route, so I was fine with that. It will be interesting to see what your other siblings think. Jon has some very good points. But, you always like adventure, and the charter school sounds like one, especially since you'd get in at the very beginning.
ReplyDeleteOne more thought (which you probably have already considered) - keep in mind your own sanity. Although 4.5 miles isn't too far, it's still a lot different than just down the street:) Hopefully someone with experience at a charter school can give you some perspective too.
Love you all - Mom
Hi Amber, I agree with Jon that your kids will turn out great no matter what you choose. I also agree that the most important thing you learn in grade school, especially in the first few years is more likely to be social behavior. I have very fond memories of my kindergarten experience which are centralized in the environment of the school. I very vividly remember walking to and from school with my siblings or parents passing neighborhood homes and gardens in the fall or playing in the snow along the way in the winter, playing on the school's monkey bars, swing sets, and large outdoor field, walking to and from classes in the building and looking at the beautiful decorations on each classroom door, and eating and participating in assemblies in our cafeteria. My point is that I vividly remember the sights, smells, and social fun I had in our kindergarten environment, and though I also have great memories of my arts and music classes (no recollection of my math classes at this point:) ), most of my fond memories have to do with the beauty of the school. Our school also had some portables I attended more often in later grades and I remember how hot they got in the spring. I would think that the length of time you'll be traveling everyday as a parent is quite important. If it were me I'd go with the closer school; I'd get to leisurely walk with the kids to school while talking and pointing out sights versus buckling seat belts, packing the car, and rushing to get there on time twice a day and the kids could enjoy all the playground fun during recess and before and after school with friends. I remember a lot of social learning experiences taking place on the playground as well as my first introduction to kick ball, wally ball, hopscotch, tricks on the bars, and other playground games that got me making friends. That's my two cents.
ReplyDeleteLocal school. Don't ruin their childhood years. Those will be precious memories. I see the vote is already 4-0.
ReplyDeleteI guess I have a right to chime in. I want Kate to be challenged. When she is challenged she shines. She has proven that she far exceeds most children in their perception and in their awareness. But, Kate is blessed with the same curse that I have, a desire to be lazy. I think that the public school which teaches to the slowest child in the class (no child left behind even if it drags every other child to boredom) I am afraid of Kate getting bored. I also am convinced that anything but a traditional education is an improvement. If you have new enthusiasm parent involvement, a group of people and students that are excited about a program it can be good. I also agree with Jon the that school is good, but learning to socialize and learning to function in the world is the key. But, I don't see where you would get one and not the other at either school. What you will do is probably socialize more with adults at the charter school and children of parents that are willing to invest the extra time to work in the classroom as well as drive their kids to the sticks to go to the school.
ReplyDeleteMy counterpoint is that play is valuable to a kid. I am not sure they feel the same in the "progressive" charter school. They are also looking at extending the kindergarten day out to a full day which also takes away from the play of the kid, and the free time to create.
As for the Walton moments of walking the kids to school down the quaint dirt road, I will be sorry that it wouldn't happen.
My vote is the local school. This is just my experience, but I did pretty well in school, took some advanced courses, got into a good major and ended up getting whatever job I could muster. I applied for over 60 jobs and ended up at the mall because they would hire me. Maybe I would disagree if I got a six figure job in new york (and maybe I would have if I hadn't chosen to stay in Utah for Kyle) but for me, getting a job was all about personality and nothing about academics. And, being pushed so hard in school made learning seem like a chore instead of enlightening. Also, I miss high school and wish I would've spent more time having fun and less studying. You won't be throwing away her future sending her to a public school. But, private/gifted kids seem to be robbed of reality. They don't get exposed to as much diversity. It's pretty awkward for me at work sometimes because everyone parties, drinks, has done/ is doing drugs, we have some gays and minorities and I never really dealt with that in high school and definitely didn't face it in college. Being able to work with a range of people has been the hardest adjustment for me. The older I get (which, thus far, hasn't been much) the more I feel like success depends on how well you can play the politics game. And high school politics are the worst and most nonsensical in the world. For me, being on the cheer squad prepared me for my current career way more than AP Chemistry or the study of Organizational Behavior. But, that's just me. Chris's success will probably depend mostly on academics, Kyle's was based on going to the school with the best athletic program. So, my vote is the public school with normal kids but I hate to give you advice since I'm still pretty young and prejudice by my recent job search. Hope that helps! Loves!
ReplyDelete-Julianne-
I can say that growing up in the same public schools as Brent, that my children have had the complete opposite experience than we had. It really all depends on the teacher. My son has a teacher now that takes the extra time to have five different math groups, in order to cater to all levels of learning. A second grade teacher we had was very focused on writing and had exciting lessons that always included a lot of reading and writing. I have found it very helpful to keep my ear to the ground and listen to other parents who have "been there and done that". Each teacher is known for something. Every single teacher that my children have had, have been better than all my elementary teachers combined. Zachary and Samantha had the most amazing 4th grade teacher ever. I too feel that play is important, and probably the most important thing to a child. A hula-hoop would be depressing compared to a full playground. My only frustration in my 8 years thus far in the public school system has been with star testing, and principals. I have seen a dramatic difference in school teacher moral when it comes to the principal. Star testing is the state testing and there is a constant focus to teach what will be on the test, therefore require the teachers to move at a rapid pace. Luckily my kids do well in school, but my friends daughter struggles to keep up. Here in Vacaville the charter school also participates in Star testing, and if your charter school isn't accredited yet, I could see there being a HUGE push to have high test scores and not so much of a month long unit on Dinosaurs that they may claim is their focus. I really feel like the proof of the closer school is right there in front of you, where you are hoping that the charter school is all you want? Also, in the 3 elementary schools my kids have attended there are more parent volunteers than the teachers know what to do with. Brent, be careful, our education was pathetic, and a lot has changed. Also at in our district once you do a transfer there is no going back. Samantha and Zachary changed school in the lower grades and they seem to have managed quite well. Sometimes parents that are really involved also don’t think that their child can do wrong. So you will be faced with just as many social challenges. Kate is very bright and you will probably end up always having to challenge her at home to bigger and better goals than they set for her at school. I used to give my children extra worksheets in Math, because it was good for them. I had them keep journals to help them learn to write more. Anyway, I wasn’t going to chime in on this blog, but when I read what Brent wrote, I had to say my peace. I love you Brent but I would be careful not to assume the charter, or a private school, is a fix all. There are several charters that have gone under in areas, and then there are places like San Antonio and St Louis that have specialized charter schools that are wonderful. I’m sure you two will do fine with any situation. I myself am faced with this same dilemma with my Jr. High going into High School student. I am handling it on a per child basis. I was for sure going to send Samantha to the Charter school two years ago. They have the best scores in town and there is no messing around, or your kicked out. Two things that I thought mattered most. Well now that I am closer to the decision, I really think she is going to our local high school instead. Why? Because Samantha loves the social part of school. She has proved that she is willing to keep her grades up to participate in the after school activities. So to take away band and clubs (which are not offered at the Charter) may also take away her motivation to work hard. Zachary is another story. And I will face that bridge when I get closer. Kate will do well, no matter what. Just remember she is only a kid for 13 more years. She gets to take on the challenges of the world as an adult for another 60+. The pressures on kids are tremendous at earlier and earlier ages. Okay I’ll stop. Good luck.
ReplyDeleteAndrea
wow! great points seriously by all. I totally understand your dilemma. the school thing is such a nightmare and a whole different ball game when it's your kids instead of studying it in graduate school. I've been stressed out about choosing Adley's preschool! (so pathetic) I completely agree with Jon, no matter where they go, they will be great, but I also completely empathize with the parent perspective of truly wanting what will be best for your child. Just a few thoughts, trying to remove myself from the parent in me too..
ReplyDeleteI took a class in grad school about the economics of school choice that was really interesting. The prof was Henry Levin, a great guy who is kinda a important face in this field. Anyway, apparently in studies they have done in the U.S. kids who go to private school don't make any more money in the future than public schoolers, so there is little return on your "investment" in private school. Regarding charter vs/ public there has been NO conclusive study that has show that charter students outperform public school students in testing. (I also learned how messed up and slanted all the tests done in this area usually are). Also, in the category of how happy parents are with their school, charters usually score really high, but often researchers attribute this to parents desiring to feel good about their choice and involvement.
Another thought, Curteis and I talk about this kind of issue all the time because he grew up on the East coast where education is often looked at a little differently in regards to public/private/charter/magnet. His mom paid a premium for him to go to the "best" prep school in Orlando because the public school were known to be not so good. I, on the other hand, of course went to Centennial. We both ended up in the same university for college. And, I feel like I learned a lot more :) However, he does have some pretty solid "connections" which may come in handy down the line in his field of real estate. (I guess because of the kind of people who were sending their kids there) I also saw that at Columbia, where a lot of people came from other-than-public elementary and secondary backgrounds.
But, once again, it's elementary, and I think because of the excellent home environment and parents that you and brent are, it seriously won't matter, and yes, social learning is the most important thing going in those early stages. I guess this is why we decided to send adley next year to the local baptist preschool rather than montessori, which is what I really wanted to do but was 5 times more expensive, we figured in the end it truly won't make much of a difference, it would be better to put that money into their college fund! ;) good luck! I support you with whatever you decided to do!
This is a difficult decision. I agree with a comment posted here that the teacher can make all the difference. I taught in a private school and it was amazing for me. The parents were totally invested in their children's education, however there were a few teachers that I don't feel did a great job. I know that doesn't help much, but maybe you could look into how easy it is to move students from one teacher (or class) to another if you're not happy with it. Also the curriculum is huge. I would compare the curriculum if that's possible. I have the feeling that you'd be happier with her at the charter. I disagree with a lot of the comments about early learning being mainly social. I think it needs to be much more than that. When I taught first grade I challenged my students and they blew me away every time!!! I had a curriculum that basically supported every child moving at their own pace and trying to compete with themselves to pass more 'mastery tests' (it comprised their reading, writing, spelling, comprehension, math, etc. ) I also had them do one home project every month. My own kids (now in 3rd and 5th) have never been challenged to even come close to doing what I had those 1st graders do. I miss it and I cry when I think of my kids not getting that kind of education.
ReplyDeleteHi everyone,
ReplyDeleteI can't thank you enough for these insightful comments . It's been so fascinating to read them, and they're giving me and Brent a lot to talk about. It's been helpful, as I've fretted over making this choice.
My only added comments to those of others...which I agree with are...your local school is a proven product. You know they have consistent 10's (I wish Fairfield school had been as good). The Charter School is a dream...and who knows where it will find it's permanant home, who its teacher will be etc. I'd want to see how they did for a couple of years (I realize there might be a waiting list). No matter where your kids go you ALWAYS need to keep your eyes open and your ear to the ground to protect your child's interests. Go talk to the teachers at your local school, call the PTA or Parent Group President and pick her brain, go observe during a recess. I love Andrea's idea of the parent introduced homework.
ReplyDeleteLove
Mom Fawson
are you a product of a public school? i was and i turned out OK (despite my abuse of company computers to leave comments on blogs).
ReplyDeletesomeone up above talked about the "best" school. make sure you have a clear definition of what "best" is...
So, Amber -- I have to admit that I've had a secret obsession with your blog since we got your Christmas card. First a shout out to how awesome we think you are and how much we miss you all as the greatest neighbors ever! If my two cents amount to anything, I'll throw it in, because we've been dealing with a similar thing with AJ. It's hard to imagine not giving your child the most brilliant and amazing possibilities that are out in the world, but ultimately what you do as a family is the greatest experience they will ever have. Think of it this way -- do you want your kids to go to museums, prepare science projects, engage in creative pursuits and experience the wornders of the world at school (as homework) or with you, and on your schedule (just think of all the exciting research projects for you as you extend the local school curriculum based and the interests of both Kate and Danny)? That's how I've come to grips with it. Friendships are as important to development as academics are, and that can't be discounted. Consider also that the kids have a whole lifetime for academics and only a little while to be silly -- and what a great confidence boost to your smart kids when they find themselves always at the head of the class instead of struggling to keep up with the rigors of a more difficult program.
ReplyDelete(Tiffnie Barlow)
It has been so interesting to read so many of these comments! I am working through a similar challenge on deciding where to send Ethan for K next fall. Sadly, the local public schools within walking distance are very poor and I'm trying to choose between 2 drastically different charter schools and a public school in a neighboring district (which means "eat your waffles in the car kids - we gotta hit the road!"). But with as much research as I've done and as much as I've looked at the facts on paper, and as much as I've calculated the gas mileage, what helped me the most was physically walking into those schools and paying attention to my first "gut instinct". I am a huge fan of school programs that allow for each child to be challenged and that work with the kids on their varying levels. And I soooo want that! But I also realized that I'm going to have to evaluate Ethan's needs one year at a time. And that his needs might change. So, for kindergarten, my priority is that he ENJOYS his introduction into the educational system and actually wants to go to 1st grade when its all said and done.
ReplyDeleteI'd bet that you can always work your way into one school or another if your children's needs change or you want to make a switch. Life's tough when you're faced with too many good choices, huh??